Star Wars Spring: A Design Competition Thread

Greetings from Star Wars Spring!

Welcome to our first Design Competition!

About Star Wars Spring
Star Wars Spring is a modification for the Spring Engine. The Spring engine is a remake of the classic Real Time Strategy, Total Annihilation (voted The Best Strategy Game of All Time) into a modern 3D engine.
It is a free Open Source project which has been blossoming for the last few years, and will have 300 or so players in it's gamelobby on a good night.

Spring lets you play on a gorgeous 3D engine, which looks like this:

There are also a large variety of mods available to play, such as:

Star Wars Spring is an evolution of a mod for Total Annihilation, Star Wars TA. Our first release for the Spring engine largely involved porting these units over to Spring, and remodelling a few of the uglier ones. This was released over a year ago, and has attracted over 8,000 downloads in total, and was featured in a popular British Gaming Magazine [click for article].

However, the simplistic nature of the unit models seen in that article is due to the fact that they were originally intended for the TA engine. Dating from 1997, it was the first 3D RTS, and feasibly limited polygon counts at around the 200 mark. Spring however, allows us to bump this significantly higher, and modern graphic standards means that players expect a far higher level of visual competence. We are working hard on a new release, seen here:

To the actual Design Competition!

Introduction
In redesigning much of Star Wars Spring, we have taken it upon ourselves to refine and change the balance. One of the things we are intending to do is to make the two sides (Rebels and Imperials) more assymetrical.

Currently, both sides commence the game with a similar construction vehicle. The ugly thing we use now doesn't really fit the role for the central element of imperial's player war machine - and it is not particularly impressive at all. Furthermore, to reflect our balance changes, instead of each side starting with almost the same construction vehicle, we've decided that the imperial starting unit would not be a mobile vehicle, but a static headquarters building (A bit like the Construction Yard from Command & Conquer). There is no real canon for this; the only precedent in the Star Wars universe to this is the the Prefabricated Garrison Base. Which is more or less what we want, but on a much, much smaller scale.

Given the importance of this unit, we think it is essential that it looks as good as it possibly can, so we're opening the design up to you in a competition.

The winning design will be used in our next release as what is essentially the most important thing in the entire Imperial arsenal; something which is seen in practically every single game of Star Wars Spring.
... And of course you will be credited accordingly

Onto the specifics:

Requirements of Design
Here are the 'rules' for the required submissions. Please understand that we are flexible regarding rules in some regards (obviously not in others such as "It is an immobile structure"). The rules are there more as an indication of what we need, and as a starting point. We aren't setting out to inhibit your creativity; creative designs are what we are after!. Please feel free to query us regarding them.

Required elements

1) It should be no bigger then indicated in the image above (use the Stormtroopers as a guide for scale. Old commander included for ugliness comparisons
2) It should be an immobile structure
3) It should be capable of constructing units either through:
- "training units" inside itself
- Having a clear "landing pad" structure where units can be delivered from an unseen orbiting Star Destroyer via a shuttle.
It will not be building any large vehicles, only stormtroopers and probe droids, and perhaps a speeder bike, so you don't need to make it look like a giant factory.
4) It needs some sort of radar device. This does not have to be a standard radar shape, it could look like a military radar, or it could just be a big antenna.
5) It is armed with the following:
- 360 degree light laser battery
note: We are not specifying a specific weapon type, so you don't need to go search for a "light laser battery". We simply want a weapon that is intended to destroy infantry at a medium range. It could be guys standing in guard towers, it could be automated turrets, anything really.
Furthermore, 360 degree fire coverage doesn't mean you can't have 4 guns with 90 degree arcs each, or two guns with 180 degree arcs, etc.
- An anti air weapon
Again, this could be a missile battery, or a flak turret. Its up to you.
6) It needs clear provision for team colours

Optional Elements
These do not have to be included for the design to be accepted, but you may wish to include them, and designs using these elements will be looked upon favourably:
1) A "folding up mechanism", whereby the structure is capable of somehow turning on an armoured state. This could be through unveiling steel armour, through folding up and closing into itself, burrowing beneath the ground, etc. This should not involve star wars-style energy shields.
2) Upgrade slots: Visible areas on the commander that will receive extra "appendages" as the player constructs certain upgrades on their commander, to give it new abilities (you don't really have to provide these abilities, we haven't quite decided these ourselves, nor worked out how to trick the Spring engine into letting us to do it), but maybe think about how this building would be "expanded" on top of what is already there.
3) This thing is meant to be dropped by a Star Destroyer onto a planet to subdue it. Therefore, some sort of landing animation that could play at the outset of the game (and perhaps if we allow the player to build more) would be nice. This could involve a sort of meteor slamming into the ground, then opening up effect, or it could be some sort of shuttle lowering the thing to the ground. Or it could have engines built into it, so that it lowers itself into the ground, etc. Whatever you can think of! Have it land in a giant egg which hatches open!
4) Include the Imperial Logo somewhere on the structure

Aesthetic Elements / The spirit of the design
Think of these more as guidelines or suggestions then rules, unlike the necessary requirements indicated above. I want to encourage interesting and varied designs, not funnel you all into producing the same things.
1) This is the centrepiece of the Imperial warmachine. It needs to be big and nasty, and look very impressive. It needs to look like a command centre; but also a command centre meant for war on the front lines. So it needs to look battle ready. Think of it as a "field HQ". (no tents! )
2) It must be Imperial. Imperials tend to use sharp lines, heavy concreted elements, advanced war technology, and cold steel. It should look foreboding, and more then a little evil. In looking quasi-megalomaniac, it shouldn't look B-grade supervillain fortress either. It should look realistic, and functional as well as evil and oppressive. Think Stalin or Hitler rather then Ming the Merciless
3) People like to look at a structure that appears to be alive rather then an inert mass. Pieces that move, maybe stormtroopers that walk around the perimeter, or scan the horizon; rotating radars, etc. Vent fans that spin, or flashing lights are always good.
4) If you plan to have units be trained internally rather then using the landing pad, some sort of visual animation to convey this to the player would be needed.
5) The image earlier showing size is the standard Spring view. Certainly, the camera can be rotated into pretty much any position; but for the most part, because this is an RTS, players are looking at it from this perspective. Your design should aim to look the best from this view.
6) The way in which it "meets the ground" needs to be resolved; does it look half submerged? Is it raised on a concrete block?

Some important features/limitations of the Spring engine to bare in mind:
- Spring models are UV mapped, with channels for reflectivity, self-illumination, and team color. That means you can have shiny surfaces, glow-in-dark pixels, and that the team color doesn't have to be bright red/blue but can be gradually blended with the base texture. You are not expected to UV map a model for the competition, though a textured model is a lot easier to understand and imagine in-game then an untextured model.
- If you decide to do a model, it should be kept under 4000 polygons, preferably even under 2500. However this is an important unit, and will likely be limited to one per player, so we are happy for you to go as high as 4000, as long as it's worth it. For instance don't waste thousands polys on a grill, or on a perfectly round sphere.
- The engine is capable of handling smoothing of edges, so you can have round elements. 8 sides is all you need for a reasonably flawless cylinder.
- The animation is done with translation and rotation of solid parts. No skeletal system. No polygon deformation.
- The engine can spawn effects on the building, such as decorative lights, lasers, etc. Smoke is preferably avoided to keep particle counts down.

The Requirements of the Competition
Submission Types
3D models are looked upon favourably, as we can rotate them, zoom in and out, etc. If we like your design a lot, we may be able to just use the model itself in the end. We can deal with most common filetypes.

You are welcome to submit sequential screenshots showing how things work, animation clips, anything that will help us understand your building.

However, we are just as happy to receive illustrations and drawings indicating your design, and how your unit works, instead. These could be scanned sketches, photoshopped works, anything. As long as they are:
- Clear
- Have a couple of different views, perspective, isometric or orthogonal, so that if we choose your design we can easily translate it into 3D.
- indicate through illustration or annotations the most important animations you have intended for the structure.
For example, if you decide to have your commander fold up into an armoured state, we would need a picture of it open, a picture of it closed, and perhaps a picture of it as it "folds up" to explain how this works.

Closing date
Given that we are trying to push a release out, we can't wait too long for this, so the deadline for all submissions will be Monday, the 30th of April.
This is just over three weeks from now. Hopefully this will give you enough time to work out and refine your designs.
If there are any changes to the length of the competition, you will be all informed of this well in advance of the closing date.

FINAL submissions should be emailed to: starwarsspring@gmail.com

However, we very much encourage you to post your ideas and work-in-progress in this thread, so that other users can comment and criticise, giving you the chance to rework your designs, change them, etc.

Please note that this competition is being simultaneously run at the following other communities:
Jedi Council Art Forum
Scifi3D
SciFi Meshes
Spring Art & Modelling Forum
We have no bias for any site, but want you to understand that the final winner may not necessarily be from SFM.
Also, don't worry about checking those communities to keep an eye on competition, I'll be cross-posting all WIP entries.

Good luck!

And a final little note:
While the winning design will be used, we have to reserve the right to be able to alter the design a little bit, in the case that it is difficult to do in 3D, or in Spring, or for any other number of functional requirements. If we do this, we'll endeavour to talk with the winner about this so that he/she still has input on this.

Warlord Zsinj
Star Wars Spring

Edited by (in order): Karuto, Karuto, Karuto, Karuto, Karuto, Karuto

Heh, it appears there is no word limit on topics, but there is a word limit on editing topics, so I can't fix up the syntax errors in the post without deleting half of it (my kingdom for a preview function!)

Little help, mods?

I'd fix two of your pictures, but I can't seem to find out what the real image url is. A lil help?

Sure;

thumbnail:
Zwzsg.hosted.luckz.de
image:
Zwzsg.hosted.luckz.de

Thumbnail
Zwzsg.hosted.luckz.de
image:
Zwzsg.hosted.luckz.de

Also, I mistakenly put a [link] tag instead of a [url]tag in one link at the end of the post. Damn cross-forum formatting

There we go. I think I've fixed anything. Good luck with your competition.

Thanks karuto, I appreciate the help. Next thing you need to do is submit a design

Yay SWTA is awesome. If only I knew how to draw or was a good modeller.

Hmm I know I could make a Half-Life 2 map of the fortress. If I have any good ideas, I will definately enter.

I love this mod, and spring itself for that matter, I had no idea SWTA had advanced so far since I last played it though.
Whats the AI situation like? that was the only thing letting it down last time I checked.

Anyway I'll definitely try and come up with an entry, even if it ain't all that great.

Edited by (in order): DrZais, DrZais

SWS is fully compatible with the latest Spring AI's (which we don't make). Those AI's are pretty cool; they'll actually learn what units to use based on how you use them, and based on their evaluation of how succesful the units they used were. The more you play them, the better they get! Of course, they're no match for a human opponent.

In terms of drawing skills, we don't really mind if you aren't the hottest drawer in the world. It is more the idea we are after; as long as you can draw/model well enough to get that across, and your idea itself is solid, you've got no problems

Edited by: Warlord_Zsinj

the first few sketches have rolled in over at the Spring forums. Nothing flash, just some early ideas which people have thrown onto paper to show what they're thinking and get some ideas/criticisms from other people.
I really encourage you guys to do the same, it gets people talking, it gets ideas out in the open, and it benefits everyone.

From user 1v0ry_k1ng
Img109.imageshack.us
his concept is that the building uses the legs to absorb the impact of the shock when it lands.

From TheRegisteredOne
Fileuniverse.com
A pretty solid WIP, you can clearly see where he is going, and the C&C influences.

(Karuto, let me know if you don't like this multi-posting, and I'll lay off)

Edited by: Warlord_Zsinj

I've already done one myself, still needs some work and to be coloured obviously:

Front view and construction procedure details:
Img174.imageshack.us

Top view and other random notes:
Img251.imageshack.us

Plus there are about two pages of notes that Ill be sending in with the finished design explaining all its little functions.
Recon I've gone a little overboard on the facist stylyings compared to the other two <sigh>

Good on you for being the first one to post a design here; I have a lot of respect for people who have the courage to go first

I think a perspective or isometric sketch would definitely help to get a grasp on the massing of this design, and how it works in 3D (not that I can't understand it, it just helps).

I really like how your design "lands". I think it is a clever (and realistic) way to have it come down in parts, and I also think it makes room for upgrades and expansions on the building, because I can always have more little shuttles ferry extra bits down as the upgrades are ordered.

I like the form of the central building, especially the inner core and the radar area; but I think the big walls are perhaps a little limiting of the overall design; perhaps you could alter them in some way, or somehow scifi them? Wedding Cake architecture could perhaps help you to make the walls a little less abrupt, and give a little more form to the design. Perhaps the armoured plates on the outside stick out a little further, or latching into the ground in a clawlike manner. Just throwing some thoughts at you.

One thing that, unfortuantely, does have to change is the turbolasers. In SWS, the turbolasers are a late-game defence, and are extremely powerful. While I see no reason why this building couldn't be upgraded to have turbolaser defences, this building starts with something a lot lighter. Maybe you could use a stormtrooper controlled turret, like this in a tower, or perhaps a modified version of this; or something entirely made up by you.

I wouldn't worry about the fascist overtones. They did blow up a whole planet for the sake of it. Makes Hitler look like a PETA member

Here are some Imperialish buildings which I have dug up, which might help, though it doesn't look like you need any.

Empire jiggy 1
Empire jiggy 2
Empire jiggy 3
Empire jiggy 4
Empire jiggy 5
Empire jiggy 6
Empire jiggy 7
Empire jiggy 8
Empire jiggy 9

Warlord_Zsinj wrote: Perhaps the armoured plates on the outside stick out a little further, or latching into the ground in a clawlike manner. Just throwing some thoughts at you.

Funny you say that, the walls are meant to move into the ground to form a kind of foundation, rather like claws (although probably not quite in the way you mean)

Anyway thanks for the pointers, I'm not all that into the Star Wars universe so I'm kind've making it up as I go along. I'll tone down the turbo lasers and play around with the walls abit. Drwaing this designs revealed quite a few flaws to me as well, and a few things I want to tone down or exagerate. Maybe I'll even get around to an isometric drwaing (eventually).

Warlord_Zsinj are we allowed to work in teams?
If DrZais is up to it ill model his concepts as there much better than anything i did

If you want, someone will have to eventually if it gets picked.
I'd wait till I've done some new drawings based on Warlord_Zsinj's suggestions tho.

OK,
Well i got to excited and started anyway :p ill change what you change with the drawings, it's got a long way to go but it's a start

OK, wire frame version triangulated for some reason

Edited by: myles

I have no problems with people working in pairs or groups, but make sure it's ok with Dr.Zais first, seeing as it's his idea.

Zais, sometimes it is an advantage to be coming from a non-Star Wars familiar background. It lets you look at things more objectively.

So it's ok with you DrZais?

Well here is a bit more work -

Looks cool!
There are a few things that dont seem to have come across so well from the sketches, I recon orthographic is the way to go with at least one of the next lot. Its really difficult to show whats going on inside the walls though, I might try doing two seperate pieces one of the main building and then another for the walls.

Recon I'll make the main building more imposing with more emphasis on it retracting into an armoured state. And steal a few stylistic features from those examples, cheers for em!

That's nice, looking good. Damnit I need to come up with a good idea....

hmmmmm...

I really like the dropping from orbit idea, no idea how to do something unique and good-looking though.

A castle with a parachute :p

Those high-up catwalks seem to be specifically designed for stormtroopers to fling themselves off in an overly dramatic fashion when shot

There are lots of entry systems you could use, the tricky bit is probably picking one thats practical from a game perspective.
I toyed around with a few ideas involving shuttles and the base being built from smaller pieces/with more self assembly but just gave up, too complex.

I think you will be reasonably surprised by what we can do. The whole thing is very much faked, but can be made to look pretty realistic. We can add in a script that plays when a unit spawns, and then we can animate the building to do pretty much what we want (though, no ultra advanced skeletal motions, because there is no skeletal animation, and no mesh deformation). We then spawn effects at the right place when it calls for it (ie: the rocket engines on your drop off shuttles.

Your animations which you have there are entirely possible, and pretty cool. I always liked the landing animation from Final Fantasy: Spirits Within, where the soldiers would land in balls of goo. But I suppose that's not particularly star-warsy.

Edited by: Warlord_Zsinj

One week down, two weeks to go!

Looking forward to seeing your updated design, Zais.

Here's the first 'sketch model' which user Jack Cloudy over at SFM has done:

Img155.imageshack.us

Img142.imageshack.us

The concept is essentially that the semicircle is buried underground, and slides shut to cover the commander as it's armoured state.
The model is intentionally simple just to get his ideas down, he plans to do the proper one later.

EDIT:
Zais, you were wondering what sort of guns to use instead of the turbolasers.
Here is what I have modelled for the new level 1 imperial Anti-Air structure:

Img126.imageshack.us
Img144.imageshack.us
Img144.imageshack.us

That is similar to what I had in mind when I was brainstorming what weapons the imperials could use (of course, you aren't at any disadvantage if you use your own, these are just my ponderings). I'd probably make it a little more simple, along the lines of:
Battlefront.co.nz

Hope it helps

Edited by: Warlord_Zsinj